Hello. Welcome to the Weekend Gene Pool, wherein we are erudite enough to use the word “wherein,” but also banal enough to supply you entertainment in return for your anecdotes and observations. Today, the subject at hand is Joe Biden’s performance
While a great keening was heard in the land on Friday following what was billed as a debate, the Imperial Court slipped us another one. SCOTUS struck down the 40-year "Chevron deference" doctrine precedent (Relentless v. Department of Commerce and Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo) and, in so doing, the Court majority, in its inimitable fashion, has again sown chaos and uncertainty as it did with Dobbs. Yet another example of zealotry or ideology preempting not only science and expertise but common sense. By curtailing the power of federal agencies to interpret the laws they administer, as granted by Congress, and ruling that the courts (and it will be lower courts considering how few cases SCOTUS hears in a year) should rely on their own interpretation of ambiguous laws, the Court majority has effectively left the business community scratching its head. Business relies on dependable rules and procedures --- whether it agrees with them or not --- and now, the Court majority in its infinite wisdom, has knocked that into a cocked hat, by allowing unknowledgeable judges to decide what the laws governing these rules and procedures mean. Nothing less --- whether religion, reproductive rights, voting, and now business --- than a full out attack on the way we not only choose to, but the way we can, live our lives.
Have we all seen this gem? https://www.project2025.org/ Touting it as 'building a better country,' which includes an actual, self-proclaimed playbook, for 'undoing the damage' they perceive as the leftist conspiracy to pry power out of the hands of freighted white men who believe they own this country, to unapologetically dismantle our democracy and hand the reigns over to a dictator (when in doubt, the president will have full power to override anything because he is the supreme being, elected by the majority to safeguard the country: he will be able to stack all the jobs in the federal government, even those not appointed, with goosestepping supporters). This scares me worse than anything else - the systematic and subversive overthrow of the government from within. With a game plan. To replace every government employee - scientists, administrators, military personnel, secretaries, cooks, you name it, with appointees pledged to make the president get whatever he wants or be fired. So you can now purchase your way into a government job by supporting the president, suck up to the party to get a six figure government job whose only qualification is to pledge loyalty to the president, and the ousting of career government employees who are experts in their field will become commonplace. I'm scared by this.
It’s only June, FFS. If the Dems were a party bent on winning they would do what the Republicans do every day. “Biden won the debate! He didn’t look old, he looked wise! He didn’t flub any lines! He meant to do that! Trump is a felon! Biden won!” Instead they insist on feeding the Republican beast. Yeesh.
I agree - why not just spin it as a positive, like Trump's team does? "I grab women by the pussy because I can't help it" turns into "Trump is assertive and knows what he wants. "Cure Covid with horse drugs" turns into "He's an innovator who isn't afraid to take chances to keep Americans safe." "He hires illegal aliens all the time and has to pay thousands in fine at every construction site he's ever had" turns into "He creates jobs." The Democrats need a spin doctor who sees the half empty glass are more than half full, but their communications people believe they need to talk intelligently to the supporters rather than talking out their ass to the folks on the fence.
Funny how the overnight polls and focus groups with flesh and blood voters showed (shockingly --- sarcasm supplied) either a slight bump up or no change in Biden support. Fortunately, most of the electorate knows what's important, if the chattering classes don't, and many Democrats have once again donned the traditional sackcloth and ashes (always apparently within reach) when there's a glitch in the "perfect" plan. I guarantee we'll see a different Biden in the second (and more important) debate in Sept. --- assuming it happens --- but the same lies and disinformation from the "grab 'em by the democracy" guy.
Yes, the debate was painful to watch, and predictably, the Drear Misleader is showing his usual lack of class by gloating about his victory. Even so, I don't think it will matter in November, for two reasons. First, it's not exactly news that Biden is old and is not a natural orator. And second, I still have faith that decent, respectable Republicans who have not yet morphed into Trumplicans will not be able to bring themselves to vote for a criminal. Call me naive, but in a close election, even a 1% defection could be enough.
My wife said before Thursday that it seemed a lot was riding on the debate. I responded "Actually I didn't know how many swing voters pay close attention and I think a lot more is riding on how the media reports on the debate."
Then I watched, and yes, I thought Joe blew it time and time again, but I wasn't prepared for how instant and universally vicious the coverage was. The narrative before the debate had even ended was "Dems in panic, calling for Biden to step aside."
So yeah, I'm worried. Heather Cox Richardson was practically the only person outside his inner circle to defend him the next day.
It was inconceivable to me that replacing Biden on the ticket could be a good idea. Now I'm not so sure. I think he has done a great job, but one of the president's jobs is to inspire and lead and share his vision with the public. He has apparently lost his ability to do that part of the job.
Complicating things is the fact that Americans are too misogynist and racist to vote for Harris.
Interesting to mention Lincoln's election in 1860. That was a four-way race with Lincoln, a third party candidate, pulling in less than 40% of the popular vote but clearly winning the electoral college. Thus, he did not have to form a coalition government and have to deal with that alongside civil war. Our founders were wise.
Lost in all the performance analysis was the fact that only two candidates were allowed to debate. As shown eight score and four years ago, third parties should matter.
More importantly --- Steve Bannon is headed to his home away from home come Monday (July 1), his emergency appeal to stay out of the slammer having fallen on deaf ears at the Imperial Court.
Next week, all the talk will be about the SCOTUS decision on immunity. The following week will be all about Trump’s sentencing. By November, the debate will be long forgotten.
The fake stuff and hateful memes Trump already has won’t die, either. We know this going in. It was always going to be tough, but the debate changed very few minds. Except the super-frightened-fatalistic-extra-fragile-nauseous. They should calm down, it was always our mountain to climb.
I voted "I couldn't watch," after we had vowed not to watch anyway. Starting this event with two elderly people at 9 pm was a mistake. It was clear that Biden was under the weather -- droopy eyes, raspy voice. From what I've read elsewhere (notably Heather Cox Richardson), Biden picked up the pace after the first few minutes, whereas Trump reverted to form. Biden really needs to show his SOTU form from here on out, and not participate in the proposed September event.
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." --- Benjamin Franklin, reportedly on the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776.
I just realized that I misunderstood the first survey question's final response. I thought, "I couldn't watch it" meant "I knew how cringeworthy Biden's performance would be, and I couldn't bear to watch the trainwreck." Not joking. That's what I thought the survey response meant, and that's how I answered. Regrettably, I chose wisely.
In the first 11 comments, this audience seems to say, "Chill out, it's not so bad." Let me be the first to agree with the NY Times editorial board: Joe should step aside. Sorry.
For whom? How easy it is to say "step aside," especially as it appears from your comment you had already made up your mind before what was billed as a debate. Apart from the formidable practical and technical issues of him either stepping down or being replaced, who would be the choice of the notoriously disputatious segments of the party --- satisfying progressives, centrists and conservative Democrats, to say nothing of critical donors? You would be looking at an own goal with the very real possibility of a convention free-for-all or some other ugly scenario that would just about ensure the unthinkable. Biden has four years of accomplishments to run on and direct, vigorous opposition to a stated threat to democracy. Anyone else would be simply "not Joe Biden," whatever the spin and wishful thinking. Anyone else would be "Hubert Humphrey" at this stage.
It's a conundrum, because everything you said is correct, but also because it's become clear to me that Biden's record has become irrelevant. Even many of his supporters are focused not on all he's accomplished, but only on whether he would be able to govern at age 86. And it's a conundrum because polling has been saying consistently for a good year now that I'm the key swing states Biden loses to Trump, and that "anybody but Biden" beats Trump. And yes, many folks could forget about the debate, but one single public slip by Biden at any point in October or November puts us right back in panic mode.
The election is becoming all about Biden's deterioration, which is real. Trump is not popular. If any other candidate were running, it would be all about Trump and the threat he represents.
I didn't know what the right thing is to do, but I do know all the above is real.
Biden never needs to debate or use debate skills to be a great President. He needs results. But not too soon. Bush won his war and by the election he lost. People forgot. A good trade deal with China and peace in Ukraine and some luck will save this Administration. After all, Trump did not win the debate. And by November, his negatives may be astronomical.
The best move for Biden and the party would be for him to head to the doctor and get a note excusing him from running, saying he had a bad blow to the head a few days earlier from a fall down the stairs - a very plausible excuse since we've all seen him fall multiple times on camera. Then the Democratic party needs to call on someone who won't look like a deer in the headlights when the cameras roll - Georgia's Ossoff, who will appeal to the Southern Bloc (where Trump has such a strong hold) or Mark Kelly, who can hold his own and will impress people on the fence because he has a notable career in the Gulf War and at NASA. They should steer clear of senators who are from any state that is a mess or in the north, since some southerners side eye the north as 'those other people' and 'not real Americans.'
I’m not sure if most Gene Pool readers live in a progressive bubble, or what? Yes, most reasonable voters will still vote for an “administration” over Trump, but many less enlightened won’t. We’re extremely likely to lose this election now! And no, people aren’t going to forget about this debate - it clearly showed Biden as weak and incapable! This is an emergency level problem and it’s astonishing that anyone can dismiss it.
I didn't watch (or listen, actually), because I couldn't make myself sit through Trump's lying. For the short bit I listened to, that means every word he said. What I really don't understand is how Trump's own performance does not automatically torpedo him every time, regardless of his opponent. Yet it seems there are people who find unbroken angry noise to be exactly what they think they crave in a candidate. Biden seemed to be fine for that bit, smacking back at Trump's leading lie in that barrage, Trump's claims to have better served veterans and active-duty military.
The main problem I see now is all the ordinary Democrats trying to pose themselves as astute political judges who know how to run a good campaign and know that Biden is a bad choice who must be replaced. Bull. Like anyone, they always love best the candidate who is not running, because that candidate requires no compromises. If Biden needs to go at all, it is because his own party is fiercely engaged in defeating him, so it seems to be the only way to shut them up. But if the replacement loses, you can guarantee that Biden will get the blame.
While a great keening was heard in the land on Friday following what was billed as a debate, the Imperial Court slipped us another one. SCOTUS struck down the 40-year "Chevron deference" doctrine precedent (Relentless v. Department of Commerce and Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo) and, in so doing, the Court majority, in its inimitable fashion, has again sown chaos and uncertainty as it did with Dobbs. Yet another example of zealotry or ideology preempting not only science and expertise but common sense. By curtailing the power of federal agencies to interpret the laws they administer, as granted by Congress, and ruling that the courts (and it will be lower courts considering how few cases SCOTUS hears in a year) should rely on their own interpretation of ambiguous laws, the Court majority has effectively left the business community scratching its head. Business relies on dependable rules and procedures --- whether it agrees with them or not --- and now, the Court majority in its infinite wisdom, has knocked that into a cocked hat, by allowing unknowledgeable judges to decide what the laws governing these rules and procedures mean. Nothing less --- whether religion, reproductive rights, voting, and now business --- than a full out attack on the way we not only choose to, but the way we can, live our lives.
Have we all seen this gem? https://www.project2025.org/ Touting it as 'building a better country,' which includes an actual, self-proclaimed playbook, for 'undoing the damage' they perceive as the leftist conspiracy to pry power out of the hands of freighted white men who believe they own this country, to unapologetically dismantle our democracy and hand the reigns over to a dictator (when in doubt, the president will have full power to override anything because he is the supreme being, elected by the majority to safeguard the country: he will be able to stack all the jobs in the federal government, even those not appointed, with goosestepping supporters). This scares me worse than anything else - the systematic and subversive overthrow of the government from within. With a game plan. To replace every government employee - scientists, administrators, military personnel, secretaries, cooks, you name it, with appointees pledged to make the president get whatever he wants or be fired. So you can now purchase your way into a government job by supporting the president, suck up to the party to get a six figure government job whose only qualification is to pledge loyalty to the president, and the ousting of career government employees who are experts in their field will become commonplace. I'm scared by this.
It’s only June, FFS. If the Dems were a party bent on winning they would do what the Republicans do every day. “Biden won the debate! He didn’t look old, he looked wise! He didn’t flub any lines! He meant to do that! Trump is a felon! Biden won!” Instead they insist on feeding the Republican beast. Yeesh.
Rope-a-dope? Perhaps.
We will see.
I agree - why not just spin it as a positive, like Trump's team does? "I grab women by the pussy because I can't help it" turns into "Trump is assertive and knows what he wants. "Cure Covid with horse drugs" turns into "He's an innovator who isn't afraid to take chances to keep Americans safe." "He hires illegal aliens all the time and has to pay thousands in fine at every construction site he's ever had" turns into "He creates jobs." The Democrats need a spin doctor who sees the half empty glass are more than half full, but their communications people believe they need to talk intelligently to the supporters rather than talking out their ass to the folks on the fence.
Funny how the overnight polls and focus groups with flesh and blood voters showed (shockingly --- sarcasm supplied) either a slight bump up or no change in Biden support. Fortunately, most of the electorate knows what's important, if the chattering classes don't, and many Democrats have once again donned the traditional sackcloth and ashes (always apparently within reach) when there's a glitch in the "perfect" plan. I guarantee we'll see a different Biden in the second (and more important) debate in Sept. --- assuming it happens --- but the same lies and disinformation from the "grab 'em by the democracy" guy.
Yes, the debate was painful to watch, and predictably, the Drear Misleader is showing his usual lack of class by gloating about his victory. Even so, I don't think it will matter in November, for two reasons. First, it's not exactly news that Biden is old and is not a natural orator. And second, I still have faith that decent, respectable Republicans who have not yet morphed into Trumplicans will not be able to bring themselves to vote for a criminal. Call me naive, but in a close election, even a 1% defection could be enough.
My wife said before Thursday that it seemed a lot was riding on the debate. I responded "Actually I didn't know how many swing voters pay close attention and I think a lot more is riding on how the media reports on the debate."
Then I watched, and yes, I thought Joe blew it time and time again, but I wasn't prepared for how instant and universally vicious the coverage was. The narrative before the debate had even ended was "Dems in panic, calling for Biden to step aside."
So yeah, I'm worried. Heather Cox Richardson was practically the only person outside his inner circle to defend him the next day.
It was inconceivable to me that replacing Biden on the ticket could be a good idea. Now I'm not so sure. I think he has done a great job, but one of the president's jobs is to inspire and lead and share his vision with the public. He has apparently lost his ability to do that part of the job.
Complicating things is the fact that Americans are too misogynist and racist to vote for Harris.
People do forget. By November? Who knows?
Interesting to mention Lincoln's election in 1860. That was a four-way race with Lincoln, a third party candidate, pulling in less than 40% of the popular vote but clearly winning the electoral college. Thus, he did not have to form a coalition government and have to deal with that alongside civil war. Our founders were wise.
Lost in all the performance analysis was the fact that only two candidates were allowed to debate. As shown eight score and four years ago, third parties should matter.
More importantly --- Steve Bannon is headed to his home away from home come Monday (July 1), his emergency appeal to stay out of the slammer having fallen on deaf ears at the Imperial Court.
Next week, all the talk will be about the SCOTUS decision on immunity. The following week will be all about Trump’s sentencing. By November, the debate will be long forgotten.
In the Social Media Age? Clips will be memed and posted endlessly and used in attack ads. This will not die.
The fake stuff and hateful memes Trump already has won’t die, either. We know this going in. It was always going to be tough, but the debate changed very few minds. Except the super-frightened-fatalistic-extra-fragile-nauseous. They should calm down, it was always our mountain to climb.
So much for Trump's sentencing...
I voted "I couldn't watch," after we had vowed not to watch anyway. Starting this event with two elderly people at 9 pm was a mistake. It was clear that Biden was under the weather -- droopy eyes, raspy voice. From what I've read elsewhere (notably Heather Cox Richardson), Biden picked up the pace after the first few minutes, whereas Trump reverted to form. Biden really needs to show his SOTU form from here on out, and not participate in the proposed September event.
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." --- Benjamin Franklin, reportedly on the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776.
I just realized that I misunderstood the first survey question's final response. I thought, "I couldn't watch it" meant "I knew how cringeworthy Biden's performance would be, and I couldn't bear to watch the trainwreck." Not joking. That's what I thought the survey response meant, and that's how I answered. Regrettably, I chose wisely.
In the first 11 comments, this audience seems to say, "Chill out, it's not so bad." Let me be the first to agree with the NY Times editorial board: Joe should step aside. Sorry.
For whom? How easy it is to say "step aside," especially as it appears from your comment you had already made up your mind before what was billed as a debate. Apart from the formidable practical and technical issues of him either stepping down or being replaced, who would be the choice of the notoriously disputatious segments of the party --- satisfying progressives, centrists and conservative Democrats, to say nothing of critical donors? You would be looking at an own goal with the very real possibility of a convention free-for-all or some other ugly scenario that would just about ensure the unthinkable. Biden has four years of accomplishments to run on and direct, vigorous opposition to a stated threat to democracy. Anyone else would be simply "not Joe Biden," whatever the spin and wishful thinking. Anyone else would be "Hubert Humphrey" at this stage.
It's a conundrum, because everything you said is correct, but also because it's become clear to me that Biden's record has become irrelevant. Even many of his supporters are focused not on all he's accomplished, but only on whether he would be able to govern at age 86. And it's a conundrum because polling has been saying consistently for a good year now that I'm the key swing states Biden loses to Trump, and that "anybody but Biden" beats Trump. And yes, many folks could forget about the debate, but one single public slip by Biden at any point in October or November puts us right back in panic mode.
The election is becoming all about Biden's deterioration, which is real. Trump is not popular. If any other candidate were running, it would be all about Trump and the threat he represents.
I didn't know what the right thing is to do, but I do know all the above is real.
Thank you DoGG. Your argument pulled me back from the ledge.
Biden never needs to debate or use debate skills to be a great President. He needs results. But not too soon. Bush won his war and by the election he lost. People forgot. A good trade deal with China and peace in Ukraine and some luck will save this Administration. After all, Trump did not win the debate. And by November, his negatives may be astronomical.
The best move for Biden and the party would be for him to head to the doctor and get a note excusing him from running, saying he had a bad blow to the head a few days earlier from a fall down the stairs - a very plausible excuse since we've all seen him fall multiple times on camera. Then the Democratic party needs to call on someone who won't look like a deer in the headlights when the cameras roll - Georgia's Ossoff, who will appeal to the Southern Bloc (where Trump has such a strong hold) or Mark Kelly, who can hold his own and will impress people on the fence because he has a notable career in the Gulf War and at NASA. They should steer clear of senators who are from any state that is a mess or in the north, since some southerners side eye the north as 'those other people' and 'not real Americans.'
I’m not sure if most Gene Pool readers live in a progressive bubble, or what? Yes, most reasonable voters will still vote for an “administration” over Trump, but many less enlightened won’t. We’re extremely likely to lose this election now! And no, people aren’t going to forget about this debate - it clearly showed Biden as weak and incapable! This is an emergency level problem and it’s astonishing that anyone can dismiss it.
I didn't watch (or listen, actually), because I couldn't make myself sit through Trump's lying. For the short bit I listened to, that means every word he said. What I really don't understand is how Trump's own performance does not automatically torpedo him every time, regardless of his opponent. Yet it seems there are people who find unbroken angry noise to be exactly what they think they crave in a candidate. Biden seemed to be fine for that bit, smacking back at Trump's leading lie in that barrage, Trump's claims to have better served veterans and active-duty military.
The main problem I see now is all the ordinary Democrats trying to pose themselves as astute political judges who know how to run a good campaign and know that Biden is a bad choice who must be replaced. Bull. Like anyone, they always love best the candidate who is not running, because that candidate requires no compromises. If Biden needs to go at all, it is because his own party is fiercely engaged in defeating him, so it seems to be the only way to shut them up. But if the replacement loses, you can guarantee that Biden will get the blame.