I think Pete B would be amazing. He would be a media darling. He would embarrass Trump in a debate. He would get out the youth vote. But I checked Kamala H because honestly if it was anybody else, the media would obsess for weeks about how the woman was snubbed, and it would piss off minorities and women, and they wouldn't be wrong. So I'd love to see a ticket of Kamala/Pete.
He's a tough cookie and a master debater. They'd try to bury him alive, but he'd flip the narrative. And that's the skill that is sadly missing from the current candidate.
The Pool Poll so far shows exactly what the problem and the hysteria are all about. "Joe Biden MUST step aside for...uh...'SOMEONE'" Yeah, that's the ticket. Sure fire way to beat Orange 1. Someone and Someone --- with no war chest, no field force, no record of accomplishment on the national and international stage and little national recognition, if any. So two warm bodies. And btw --- for some reason, the veep is now well, uh, "difficult," plus she is a woman and of color. So, it's to be "Hubert Humphrey" again, is it? It's not that Biden is a bad president. He is and would continue to be head and shoulders above Orange 1 --- it's just that well, Someone, ANYONE, is a better choice. Yeah, that's the ticket. Sure it is.
It's not that he's a bad President, or better or worse than T. It's not that at all. It's that many people who voted for him are concerned he can't handle 4 more years.
I've been pounding the table for a long time that Biden must run again because no matter what he does, the election will still be a referendum on his last 4 years.
Well, I was wrong. It's become only about his NEXT 4 years, and too many people are concerned about his failing health.
Not saying it's rational or right. It's just the truth.
And my response is two-fold: so what if he is forced to step down during his second term because of ill-health, and more importantly, who realistically will be both willing to take on the burden of mounting a campaign in four months and appeal to the necessary swing-state voters of all political shadings. For what polls are worth (IMO, of passing interest only) a couple of the "leading contenders" are, at best, only maybe a point or two ahead of Biden in post-debate, head-to-head surveys. Taking the margins of error into account, these potential replacements are polling the same as Biden against Orange 1. And of course, the polls don't take funding and other practical/logistical considerations into account, especially critical during the stretch of a campaign and a close race. You don't vote for Biden, assuming he stays in, you vote for your worst nightmare.
Nobody is saying don't vote for Biden if he's the nominee. The polls you cite are the head-to-head theoreticals for candidates most people don't know yet. Look at the negatives. Those drive down voter turnout. Biden's negatives are historically bad. That is no exaggeration. Historically bad. No incumbent with those negatives has ever sniffed reelection. It's not deserved, but it's real. No other potentiall candidate has negatives anything like that, and the weird thing about this cycle is that the burden would NOT mostly be on a new candidate to win people over. The biggest burden would be on TRUMP to paint the new candidate as some kind of criminal threat to democracy (he did that with Clinton, and now with Biden, but it took years in both cases). Because Trump's negatives are almost as bad as Biden's.
No other candidates have the same negatives because they are largely unknown. You can be sure any negatives (beyond somehow the amorphous "threat to democracy") become front and center from the opposition if Biden (and his record of accomplishment) is replaced. The only question is, will Kamala Harris or, an open convention likely "anyone but Biden" candidate be "positive" enough to counter those Trump negatives (and a disapproval rating in the mid-50s?) --- and, importantly, the time left to do so in a national race? Whitmer and Newsom are apparently gone and again, I would point out being a second or default choice is not something an ambitious politician, and especially one who is possibly a serious future candidate, aspires to --- and with its present downsides in particular.
You're obviously welcome to that opinion. But considering the number of outlets available and the mainstream media's obsession with Biden's candidacy and any replacement, time IMO, is very much a factor, apart from the logistics, especially to counter what would be a concentrated, full out assault on any such replacement, with relatively limited opportunities to counter it. We're talking effectively less than three months, assuming Kamala Harris is the choice at the convention.
THANK YOU. There are less than four months and WHO can take the lead to ensure Trump doesn't win? There really isn't a viable candidate/slate. The GOP is LOVING this as it is taking attention away from the 2025 Project and their plans.
Also, his “love your enemies,” “take care of the ill,” “treat women with respect,” stuff in down-right Unchristian! (To those “Christians” who back the MAGA agenda.)
There's plenty of time. We never used to select candidates this early.
The GOP's biggest fear is that Trump and Fox wouldn't have enough time to manufacture fear about how some new candidate was the head of a crime family.
This is really a stampede and likely one started by Trump. A panic attack. People say if you knew the real truth, you would agree with them. But this also happened in 2020 and Biden still won. Perhaps not now. But he is still our best shot. He beat Trump with the same discussion then. Not decided? Just watch the next few months and see if he performs or not. Then decide. There are no good reasons to panic now. Save for the histrionics of it all. Of course he looked old. But compared to Trump? A saint.
I like and respect Mr. Biden and wish him well but I do not believe he can be an effective president for four more years. A choice by him to give up reelection would be an historic act of sacrifice for the good of the country.
I voted the last option -- which is if Biden steps aside, I'd pick any of the above options, or a ham sandwich, over Trump. Biden and Trump may well not be alive in four more years, but Kamala Harris will be a helluva better successor than any of the clowns on Trump's short list.
I'd like to see Biden step down right now and turn the Presidency over to Harris. She would be more successful running as an incumbent. Biden should just change his mind about how healthy he is and step aside.
I'll be 80 in September, so I can justifiably be geezery. Thanks to a strong OCD streak, I have always had a lot of crotchets; there are many things I disapprove of, and personal fireworks would be among them. But, whereas we used to enjoy going down to the beach to view the fireworks the City provides, we no longer do this. In the past, the volunteer firefighters were in charge of the display, but in the past few years, when the VFD, thanks to a hiatus in training during Covid, personnel turnover, or whatever, could no longer meet the certification requirements for getting a license, the City outsourced the display to a professional contractor, and it has been our feeling that they haven't been as good. That's just an excuse, though, because the real reason we don't go any more--aside from a disinclination to fill our shoes with sand and be eaten up by mosquitos--is that we are usually in bed by the time the fireworks start (9 p.m.).
When I was younger, we kids used to make fun of my mother for going to bed so early (Dad was always a night owl), but she had to be up early to get a start on her busy day. Having spent most of my life as a night person, I have found myself evolving as well. I now really enjoy the early-morning hours when I can get things done before the official day begins. My husband apparently feels the same, so we end up in bed every night reading till just 9 or 9:30 in order to get a good night's sleep before getting up at 5:30.
Part of the issue (and it’s true for dear old Hubert as well), is that it isn’t enough for Biden (and in HHH’s case LBJ) to not run. He must resign and let Kamala be the incumbent. Show that she is up to the daunting task of being President. Run circles around the Orange Menace. Enliven the Black and Asian and Women of the USA to back her. This also gives Biden another win: Thanks to him, we have our first woman, first Asian, second Black President.
Here's the way I look at it: If Biden steps down, Harris is the logical and most likely replacement. But anyone considering voting for Biden has probably already considered that there is a decent chance that we will end up with a president Harris in the next four years. Harris does not poll as well as Biden. In fact, it's my understanding that the Repuglicans have already been running anti-Harris ads, even before the debate. Almost anyone else would be starting at square one. This would be *worse* than 1968, since Johnson stepped down in March, eight months before the election. We've now got less than four.
Less than 4 is a good thing. It took Trump and Fox about 7 years to finally convince enough people that squeaky clean Joe Biden is the head of a crime family.
I picked "other" because I don't think any of the choices are electable, except possibly Newsom. I'd vote for Pete above all of them because he has actual accomplishments. Mark Kelly or Tammy Duckworth might have a chance.
Eh, I like Newsome, but he has that "used to be married to Kimberly Guilfoyle" baggage that you know the Trumpies will make the most of. Maybe next round.
All other issues aside, that's assuming Trump would be willing to debate him. It would be very easy for him to weasel out of it by saying that he only agreed to debate Biden.
Don Marquis Quote: “I once heard the survivors of a colony of ants that had been partially obliterated by a cow’s foot seriously debating the intention of the gods towards their civilization.”
I am 85 next month -- my geezer cred might be knowing who Don Marquis was.
One very telling sign of advancing decrepitude is saying, "Get off my lawn!" when you actually mean, "Get off my lawn (and take your cherry bombs with you)!" But, for those who frequent social media you will have noticed GOML is now an epithet hurled with youthful (or at least, younger...) vigor at those expressing or exhibiting perceived old fartitude, very much like, "Okay boomer." There is still a measure of cosmic justice, however, and what goes around does tend to come around, so the GOML crowd will almost certainly eventually be yelling at someone to get out of their space, if not off their greensward. I love the smell of irony in the morning.
Pete B. would be great. Also: Chris Coons, Jamie Raskin, Raja K., Tammy Duckworth. Any of these has the ability to get Trump looking between his legs, to see if anything is still down there.
If Biden leaves the race, it has to be Kamala Harris. She is already part of the process to be on the ballot. It demonstrates consistency of leadership and vision. And it ratifies a decision that he made 4 years ago, when no plausible person considered Biden to have cognitive problems. My hope had been that Biden would depart the race and the presidency with fanfare, so that Harris could be anointed as his successor with no opportunity for second-guessing and infighting. I still wonder if that had been the plan, but events got ahead of Biden.
I think Pete B would be amazing. He would be a media darling. He would embarrass Trump in a debate. He would get out the youth vote. But I checked Kamala H because honestly if it was anybody else, the media would obsess for weeks about how the woman was snubbed, and it would piss off minorities and women, and they wouldn't be wrong. So I'd love to see a ticket of Kamala/Pete.
I love Pete. I voted for him in the last primaries. But if he were the candidate now, he'd be buried alive by the Hate/Nazi party.
He's a tough cookie and a master debater. They'd try to bury him alive, but he'd flip the narrative. And that's the skill that is sadly missing from the current candidate.
Sadly true. I echo your vote and sentiment.
The Pool Poll so far shows exactly what the problem and the hysteria are all about. "Joe Biden MUST step aside for...uh...'SOMEONE'" Yeah, that's the ticket. Sure fire way to beat Orange 1. Someone and Someone --- with no war chest, no field force, no record of accomplishment on the national and international stage and little national recognition, if any. So two warm bodies. And btw --- for some reason, the veep is now well, uh, "difficult," plus she is a woman and of color. So, it's to be "Hubert Humphrey" again, is it? It's not that Biden is a bad president. He is and would continue to be head and shoulders above Orange 1 --- it's just that well, Someone, ANYONE, is a better choice. Yeah, that's the ticket. Sure it is.
You hit the nail on the head!
It's not that he's a bad President, or better or worse than T. It's not that at all. It's that many people who voted for him are concerned he can't handle 4 more years.
I've been pounding the table for a long time that Biden must run again because no matter what he does, the election will still be a referendum on his last 4 years.
Well, I was wrong. It's become only about his NEXT 4 years, and too many people are concerned about his failing health.
Not saying it's rational or right. It's just the truth.
And my response is two-fold: so what if he is forced to step down during his second term because of ill-health, and more importantly, who realistically will be both willing to take on the burden of mounting a campaign in four months and appeal to the necessary swing-state voters of all political shadings. For what polls are worth (IMO, of passing interest only) a couple of the "leading contenders" are, at best, only maybe a point or two ahead of Biden in post-debate, head-to-head surveys. Taking the margins of error into account, these potential replacements are polling the same as Biden against Orange 1. And of course, the polls don't take funding and other practical/logistical considerations into account, especially critical during the stretch of a campaign and a close race. You don't vote for Biden, assuming he stays in, you vote for your worst nightmare.
Nobody is saying don't vote for Biden if he's the nominee. The polls you cite are the head-to-head theoreticals for candidates most people don't know yet. Look at the negatives. Those drive down voter turnout. Biden's negatives are historically bad. That is no exaggeration. Historically bad. No incumbent with those negatives has ever sniffed reelection. It's not deserved, but it's real. No other potentiall candidate has negatives anything like that, and the weird thing about this cycle is that the burden would NOT mostly be on a new candidate to win people over. The biggest burden would be on TRUMP to paint the new candidate as some kind of criminal threat to democracy (he did that with Clinton, and now with Biden, but it took years in both cases). Because Trump's negatives are almost as bad as Biden's.
No other candidates have the same negatives because they are largely unknown. You can be sure any negatives (beyond somehow the amorphous "threat to democracy") become front and center from the opposition if Biden (and his record of accomplishment) is replaced. The only question is, will Kamala Harris or, an open convention likely "anyone but Biden" candidate be "positive" enough to counter those Trump negatives (and a disapproval rating in the mid-50s?) --- and, importantly, the time left to do so in a national race? Whitmer and Newsom are apparently gone and again, I would point out being a second or default choice is not something an ambitious politician, and especially one who is possibly a serious future candidate, aspires to --- and with its present downsides in particular.
Sadly, less time is to any candidate's advantage when running against Trump/Fox in 2024.
You're obviously welcome to that opinion. But considering the number of outlets available and the mainstream media's obsession with Biden's candidacy and any replacement, time IMO, is very much a factor, apart from the logistics, especially to counter what would be a concentrated, full out assault on any such replacement, with relatively limited opportunities to counter it. We're talking effectively less than three months, assuming Kamala Harris is the choice at the convention.
THANK YOU. There are less than four months and WHO can take the lead to ensure Trump doesn't win? There really isn't a viable candidate/slate. The GOP is LOVING this as it is taking attention away from the 2025 Project and their plans.
the only one that might have a chance is Jesus Christ and they probably would not vote for a Jew. There are also residency problems
Also, his “love your enemies,” “take care of the ill,” “treat women with respect,” stuff in down-right Unchristian! (To those “Christians” who back the MAGA agenda.)
Barry McGuire's lyrics still resonate almost 60 years later.
There's plenty of time. We never used to select candidates this early.
The GOP's biggest fear is that Trump and Fox wouldn't have enough time to manufacture fear about how some new candidate was the head of a crime family.
This is really a stampede and likely one started by Trump. A panic attack. People say if you knew the real truth, you would agree with them. But this also happened in 2020 and Biden still won. Perhaps not now. But he is still our best shot. He beat Trump with the same discussion then. Not decided? Just watch the next few months and see if he performs or not. Then decide. There are no good reasons to panic now. Save for the histrionics of it all. Of course he looked old. But compared to Trump? A saint.
gary4books
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/06/biden-trump-race-rebecca-solnit
This is so very apt.
I like and respect Mr. Biden and wish him well but I do not believe he can be an effective president for four more years. A choice by him to give up reelection would be an historic act of sacrifice for the good of the country.
Yep...might sacrifice...the whole country to the wanna-be-King.
I voted the last option -- which is if Biden steps aside, I'd pick any of the above options, or a ham sandwich, over Trump. Biden and Trump may well not be alive in four more years, but Kamala Harris will be a helluva better successor than any of the clowns on Trump's short list.
I'd like to see Biden step down right now and turn the Presidency over to Harris. She would be more successful running as an incumbent. Biden should just change his mind about how healthy he is and step aside.
We members of the Gene Pool may not be representative of all voters.
I'll be 80 in September, so I can justifiably be geezery. Thanks to a strong OCD streak, I have always had a lot of crotchets; there are many things I disapprove of, and personal fireworks would be among them. But, whereas we used to enjoy going down to the beach to view the fireworks the City provides, we no longer do this. In the past, the volunteer firefighters were in charge of the display, but in the past few years, when the VFD, thanks to a hiatus in training during Covid, personnel turnover, or whatever, could no longer meet the certification requirements for getting a license, the City outsourced the display to a professional contractor, and it has been our feeling that they haven't been as good. That's just an excuse, though, because the real reason we don't go any more--aside from a disinclination to fill our shoes with sand and be eaten up by mosquitos--is that we are usually in bed by the time the fireworks start (9 p.m.).
When I was younger, we kids used to make fun of my mother for going to bed so early (Dad was always a night owl), but she had to be up early to get a start on her busy day. Having spent most of my life as a night person, I have found myself evolving as well. I now really enjoy the early-morning hours when I can get things done before the official day begins. My husband apparently feels the same, so we end up in bed every night reading till just 9 or 9:30 in order to get a good night's sleep before getting up at 5:30.
Al Franken would be my first choice.
He’s good enough, he’s smart enough, and doggone it, people like him.
But I'd also seriously consider recruiting Mitt Romney.
Part of the issue (and it’s true for dear old Hubert as well), is that it isn’t enough for Biden (and in HHH’s case LBJ) to not run. He must resign and let Kamala be the incumbent. Show that she is up to the daunting task of being President. Run circles around the Orange Menace. Enliven the Black and Asian and Women of the USA to back her. This also gives Biden another win: Thanks to him, we have our first woman, first Asian, second Black President.
Here's the way I look at it: If Biden steps down, Harris is the logical and most likely replacement. But anyone considering voting for Biden has probably already considered that there is a decent chance that we will end up with a president Harris in the next four years. Harris does not poll as well as Biden. In fact, it's my understanding that the Repuglicans have already been running anti-Harris ads, even before the debate. Almost anyone else would be starting at square one. This would be *worse* than 1968, since Johnson stepped down in March, eight months before the election. We've now got less than four.
Less than 4 is a good thing. It took Trump and Fox about 7 years to finally convince enough people that squeaky clean Joe Biden is the head of a crime family.
I picked "other" because I don't think any of the choices are electable, except possibly Newsom. I'd vote for Pete above all of them because he has actual accomplishments. Mark Kelly or Tammy Duckworth might have a chance.
Eh, I like Newsome, but he has that "used to be married to Kimberly Guilfoyle" baggage that you know the Trumpies will make the most of. Maybe next round.
Why isn’t anyone pushing Jamie Raskin to replace Biden atop the ticket? He would absolutely destroy Trump in a debate.
All other issues aside, that's assuming Trump would be willing to debate him. It would be very easy for him to weasel out of it by saying that he only agreed to debate Biden.
On the one hand: https://youtu.be/30wH1omc6XM?si=TdxDIncOk4Of_qKt
On the other hand:
Don Marquis Quote: “I once heard the survivors of a colony of ants that had been partially obliterated by a cow’s foot seriously debating the intention of the gods towards their civilization.”
I am 85 next month -- my geezer cred might be knowing who Don Marquis was.
One very telling sign of advancing decrepitude is saying, "Get off my lawn!" when you actually mean, "Get off my lawn (and take your cherry bombs with you)!" But, for those who frequent social media you will have noticed GOML is now an epithet hurled with youthful (or at least, younger...) vigor at those expressing or exhibiting perceived old fartitude, very much like, "Okay boomer." There is still a measure of cosmic justice, however, and what goes around does tend to come around, so the GOML crowd will almost certainly eventually be yelling at someone to get out of their space, if not off their greensward. I love the smell of irony in the morning.
Yes indeed. Sooner or later, everyone gets their turn in the barrel.
Pete B. would be great. Also: Chris Coons, Jamie Raskin, Raja K., Tammy Duckworth. Any of these has the ability to get Trump looking between his legs, to see if anything is still down there.
If Biden leaves the race, it has to be Kamala Harris. She is already part of the process to be on the ballot. It demonstrates consistency of leadership and vision. And it ratifies a decision that he made 4 years ago, when no plausible person considered Biden to have cognitive problems. My hope had been that Biden would depart the race and the presidency with fanfare, so that Harris could be anointed as his successor with no opportunity for second-guessing and infighting. I still wonder if that had been the plan, but events got ahead of Biden.