I have a lot of thoughts and could write a lot about my opinions on lab raised meat but I will try my best to be brief-ish. We were once told there were zero health concerns associated with genetically modified (GMO) crops. Now... some people (and I honestly don't know if they are valid concerns or not) have considerable concerns about them. I cannot fathom that lab grown meats wouldn't eventually have similar concerns. What mediums are they growing the meat in? I bet it's awful chemical-y. How do they entice these cells not attached to an actual animal to grow? I bet there are some hormones in play. Labs also have to meet certain cleanliness guidelines and I bet that involves a lot of harsh chemicals and potential for contamination. Also, I have chickens. We don't yet raise meat birds but we do have a nice flock of egg layers and for us, there are few things more valuable on our homestead than chicken poop. We compost it and it makes the most amazingly rich garden soil and fertilizer you've ever used. Our chickens lay eggs for breakfast and poop the gold that keeps our veggies and orchards growing and healthy (after 6 -12 months being composted). Would I pick it up off the ground and rub it on my food? no. But I'm also not afriad of it nor am I afraid of meat from a bird that eats some of its own poo. As for factories... I've been on and worked in factory chicken houses when I was young and I can tell you what I saw did not even remotely resemble what people holler about on documentaries. I'm not saying they're all fine. But I also know they're not all disgusting cesspools. Since I helped clean a factory chicken house before, I feel that it's worth saying that not once did I feel like I might gag, puke, or push away a tray of freshly cooked chicken (and maybe I was somehow in some unusually pleasant chicken rearing facility and the conditions have declined, I don't know, I'm just sharing what my experience WAS back in my teen years). However, after surveying a sugar refinery for work, I nearly lost my lunch. And don't get me started on the agricultural peanut processing building. Processing food (even vegan stuff) in bulk is not pretty and can include some insanely disgusting stuff and I daresay lab grown meat is going to have it's own share of probable gross associated with it. Maybe I'm wrong but I think a spanking for expressing concerns about it is a bit overboard. You may be the czar of invitational BUT someone needs to take away your paddlin' stick.
There are VERY legitimate concerns about the practices of GMO seed manufacturers and the impact they have on farmers and on prices. There are no legitimate health concerns about GMOs as a category.
Honestly, I have friends that argue that point exactly and I have friends that are vehement that they can prove there are health concerns and I haven't listened to either side intently enough (or done my own research into it) to form an opinion. Do I eat GMO crops? yes. Do I try to stick to non-gmo seeds for my homestead... also yes. However, I don't have a dog in the fight on GMOs. I'm just over here trying to mind my own business and growing my veggies with chicken poop.
My old man was a POW in Germany during Wirld War II. He and his fellow prisoners were reduced to eating tufts of crab grass and whatever crawled in by the time they were rescued by the Russian army. He thereafter found folks with prissy eating concerns precious and ungrateful. For dad, milk never got sour, mold was fine, dispose by dates were marketing gimmicks, lists of countless indecipherable ingredients pointless. He raised his kids accordingly. He died at 98.
What IS this magical place I have landed in? This is just the sort of organized chaos I could spend all day wasting time in. Thank you, but also OH NO!!!
It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone (or The Gene Pool --- weekends, Tuesdays and most Thursdays)
Twenty-some years ago, my husband was invited to Oak Ridge National Laboratory to consult on a project there because of his expertise with textile looms. He was amazed at the futuristic, mind-blowing research and development being done at Oak Ridge, from super-magnets that could pull all the nails from houses a mile away to plutonium production for space travel. To be a consultant at such a place was understandably a bit of an ego-boost for him, and he was still feeling pretty good several weeks later. We had rented a movie and settled in to watch it. But the VCR wouldn’t play the movie until the clock on it was set. As hard as we tried, we just couldn’t to do that. We had to wait two hours for our 10-year-old son to come home from a birthday party and work the VCR for us.
Gene's comments re: the "health concerns" of lab-raised chicken protein are almost point-by-point what I wrote in response to just seeing that as an option on the poll. What a nation of dopes we are.
Not to well actually you but well actually some of us have celiac? So as much as I'd love to have tasty chicken nuggies sans chicken, the wheat gluten makes them a nonstarter.
I suspect that the "ick" factor is more about the manufactured meat not really being what it claims to be. That something is used in the processing, or added as a stabilizer or preservative, or some other such industrial magic that is not made transparent to the consumer, that some many years down the line we all find out about amid much scandal.
I would eat fake meat, at least to try it. And would have no compunctions with regular purchase once the price achieved the same (or lower) level as the real deal.
I grew up rurally and hunted. I've been vegan/pescetarian lately. I always see deer-kills on the road and swore I would pick one up that looked 1) fresh 2) it was in cold weather and 3) I had a half hour to dress it basically to butcher it later for my 80-lb. pit bull. I was maybe mentally trying to never have to do it. But one day, one checked all the boxes. My partner's relations have no end of fun laughing about this, probably more because it was road-kill though I hear this is very common in the South. Anyway, my partner's very-aware-"WOKE" daughter said that what I did qualifies as (morally) vegan, because I didn't cause the death of the animal. Anyway, that chicken qualifies as the same.
Thank you for the delivery of the badly needed reminder about how horribly animals are treated in the agriculture industry, and how pitifully depleted that meat is. Yeah, I know this isn't funny, either, but dammit folks, get a grip on reality. If you voted for Trump, you can ignore that last.
Well if anyone needs a 1960s (or maybe early 70s?) version of Encyclopedia Brittanica, I've got a set that emerged from my parents' attic. I'd feel a bit guilty throwing them on the recycle pile - which is why they've been in my basement for quite a number of years - but I've always been at a loss about what to do with them
The mention of Van Buren reminds me of my favorite bit of Presidential trivia: Martin Van Buren was and remains the only President for whom English was a second language. As you can guess from his name, he grew up speaking Dutch. I sure hope this is true, as I’ve been spreading this around for decades.
What about George W. Bush? He spoke English as if he had only a fleeting acquaintance with the language. See Richard Thompson's classic construction "Make the Pie Higher":
Encyclopedias? My wife bought her childhood set a few years ago. They sit on a special shelf - unused. I also have hundreds of 50's and 60's paper back and hard science fiction books and magazines in the basement. But my point is my great save. I worked at the Texas Tech Library in the 60's and it had two sets of the Saturday Evening Post bound. And they weeded one set. I personally put them in the dumpster. And by chance my brothers with my father's pickup were visiting and I had the great idea to retrieve them. It was to be the core of my personal library to be. Not a full run, but something like 30 bound volumes. Even the Norman Rockwell cover were valuable. I then went from School to Army and back to school and while away working my brothers dumped them. Gone. "We read all we wanted to read." I said: " You could have let me know. I could have put them in storage." And they were bewildered. Magazines? I complained until they said "This is a sore subject. Shut up." And I did. But GOSH! Likely they were right. I have computer versions of Playboy over many years and I never look at them. I look at my New Yorker text more often, especially a great article on canned peas. Some of us librarians really are slightly mad. But not hoarders. Not quite.
Re the 82-year-old and electronic typewriters. I am a bit younger (66) and here is why I bought an electronic daisy-wheel typewriter in 1983: It was $500 and a home computer plus (poor-quality) dot matrix printer was close to $3000. Later (about 1986) when dedicated word processors with daisy-wheel printers came out and were about $400 and home computers with (slightly better) dot matrix printers were $2500, I opted for the word processor. Then in 1991 I again opted for a word processor with pretty good dot matrix printer for about $350, while the computer with pretty good dot matrix printer was about $2000. It wasn’t until about 1997 that we bought our first home computer with decent printer. Cost about $1000.
I went into business using an IBM Correcting Selectric in 1975. At some point it outlived its useful life, and I got an IBM Wheelwriter (which also had correcting tape), which had enough memory to hold an entire chapter of a dissertation. You could type into memory line by (corrected) line, then play it back flawlessly. I was still using this after we got a Compaq "luggable" in the 1980s (two floppy drives and no hard drive) because the dot matrix printer we had didn't produce "letter-quality" output. In 1992, I got a computer ($3,000, which was the going rate for computers in those days) and a LaserJet (another $1,000+) and abandoned the Wheelwriter. I still have it, but the other day I made three stabs at filling out a FedEx airbill but found I really don't know how to use it any more. It was great while it lasted, however.
I'm guessing you know that the 1872 US Grant campaign song is a parody of a parody, but in case you don't, it the melody is that of an 1858 Methodist hymn attributed to William Steffey, and was borrowed in 1860 for what became the familiar civil war tune "John Brown's Body" (aka John Brown's Song) sung by marching Union soldiers ("Glory glory hallelujah, his soul goes marching on...").
At some point during the war or soon after it was borrowed for the song "Hang Jeff Davis," which is of unknown origin but was probably written by a University of Pennsylvania student because it has been sung there ever since. That song begins "Hang Jeff Davis from a sour apple tree..." and seems the likely inspiration for"Hang the lib'ral Greeley on a sour apple tree"
PS - I forgot to just swoon over the encyclopedia. I know many of us have already made note of how hard it was to throw them away, they were/are such a treasure to pick up randomly and read. Love love love.
is it possible to edit our comments, or once they are posted they are cyberspace forever? Can we delete them? FB lets us edit and delete our comments. thanks.
I have a lot of thoughts and could write a lot about my opinions on lab raised meat but I will try my best to be brief-ish. We were once told there were zero health concerns associated with genetically modified (GMO) crops. Now... some people (and I honestly don't know if they are valid concerns or not) have considerable concerns about them. I cannot fathom that lab grown meats wouldn't eventually have similar concerns. What mediums are they growing the meat in? I bet it's awful chemical-y. How do they entice these cells not attached to an actual animal to grow? I bet there are some hormones in play. Labs also have to meet certain cleanliness guidelines and I bet that involves a lot of harsh chemicals and potential for contamination. Also, I have chickens. We don't yet raise meat birds but we do have a nice flock of egg layers and for us, there are few things more valuable on our homestead than chicken poop. We compost it and it makes the most amazingly rich garden soil and fertilizer you've ever used. Our chickens lay eggs for breakfast and poop the gold that keeps our veggies and orchards growing and healthy (after 6 -12 months being composted). Would I pick it up off the ground and rub it on my food? no. But I'm also not afriad of it nor am I afraid of meat from a bird that eats some of its own poo. As for factories... I've been on and worked in factory chicken houses when I was young and I can tell you what I saw did not even remotely resemble what people holler about on documentaries. I'm not saying they're all fine. But I also know they're not all disgusting cesspools. Since I helped clean a factory chicken house before, I feel that it's worth saying that not once did I feel like I might gag, puke, or push away a tray of freshly cooked chicken (and maybe I was somehow in some unusually pleasant chicken rearing facility and the conditions have declined, I don't know, I'm just sharing what my experience WAS back in my teen years). However, after surveying a sugar refinery for work, I nearly lost my lunch. And don't get me started on the agricultural peanut processing building. Processing food (even vegan stuff) in bulk is not pretty and can include some insanely disgusting stuff and I daresay lab grown meat is going to have it's own share of probable gross associated with it. Maybe I'm wrong but I think a spanking for expressing concerns about it is a bit overboard. You may be the czar of invitational BUT someone needs to take away your paddlin' stick.
There are VERY legitimate concerns about the practices of GMO seed manufacturers and the impact they have on farmers and on prices. There are no legitimate health concerns about GMOs as a category.
Honestly, I have friends that argue that point exactly and I have friends that are vehement that they can prove there are health concerns and I haven't listened to either side intently enough (or done my own research into it) to form an opinion. Do I eat GMO crops? yes. Do I try to stick to non-gmo seeds for my homestead... also yes. However, I don't have a dog in the fight on GMOs. I'm just over here trying to mind my own business and growing my veggies with chicken poop.
My old man was a POW in Germany during Wirld War II. He and his fellow prisoners were reduced to eating tufts of crab grass and whatever crawled in by the time they were rescued by the Russian army. He thereafter found folks with prissy eating concerns precious and ungrateful. For dad, milk never got sour, mold was fine, dispose by dates were marketing gimmicks, lists of countless indecipherable ingredients pointless. He raised his kids accordingly. He died at 98.
What IS this magical place I have landed in? This is just the sort of organized chaos I could spend all day wasting time in. Thank you, but also OH NO!!!
It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone (or The Gene Pool --- weekends, Tuesdays and most Thursdays)
Twenty-some years ago, my husband was invited to Oak Ridge National Laboratory to consult on a project there because of his expertise with textile looms. He was amazed at the futuristic, mind-blowing research and development being done at Oak Ridge, from super-magnets that could pull all the nails from houses a mile away to plutonium production for space travel. To be a consultant at such a place was understandably a bit of an ego-boost for him, and he was still feeling pretty good several weeks later. We had rented a movie and settled in to watch it. But the VCR wouldn’t play the movie until the clock on it was set. As hard as we tried, we just couldn’t to do that. We had to wait two hours for our 10-year-old son to come home from a birthday party and work the VCR for us.
I returned the first smartphone I bought because I wasn’t smart enough to use it.
Gene's comments re: the "health concerns" of lab-raised chicken protein are almost point-by-point what I wrote in response to just seeing that as an option on the poll. What a nation of dopes we are.
Not to well actually you but well actually some of us have celiac? So as much as I'd love to have tasty chicken nuggies sans chicken, the wheat gluten makes them a nonstarter.
I suspect that the "ick" factor is more about the manufactured meat not really being what it claims to be. That something is used in the processing, or added as a stabilizer or preservative, or some other such industrial magic that is not made transparent to the consumer, that some many years down the line we all find out about amid much scandal.
I would eat fake meat, at least to try it. And would have no compunctions with regular purchase once the price achieved the same (or lower) level as the real deal.
I grew up rurally and hunted. I've been vegan/pescetarian lately. I always see deer-kills on the road and swore I would pick one up that looked 1) fresh 2) it was in cold weather and 3) I had a half hour to dress it basically to butcher it later for my 80-lb. pit bull. I was maybe mentally trying to never have to do it. But one day, one checked all the boxes. My partner's relations have no end of fun laughing about this, probably more because it was road-kill though I hear this is very common in the South. Anyway, my partner's very-aware-"WOKE" daughter said that what I did qualifies as (morally) vegan, because I didn't cause the death of the animal. Anyway, that chicken qualifies as the same.
Thank you for the delivery of the badly needed reminder about how horribly animals are treated in the agriculture industry, and how pitifully depleted that meat is. Yeah, I know this isn't funny, either, but dammit folks, get a grip on reality. If you voted for Trump, you can ignore that last.
Well if anyone needs a 1960s (or maybe early 70s?) version of Encyclopedia Brittanica, I've got a set that emerged from my parents' attic. I'd feel a bit guilty throwing them on the recycle pile - which is why they've been in my basement for quite a number of years - but I've always been at a loss about what to do with them
If you're serious, and in the DC area, let me know.
Not in DC this summer, but will return in the fall. You can DM me on Facebook so I won't forget.
The mention of Van Buren reminds me of my favorite bit of Presidential trivia: Martin Van Buren was and remains the only President for whom English was a second language. As you can guess from his name, he grew up speaking Dutch. I sure hope this is true, as I’ve been spreading this around for decades.
What about George W. Bush? He spoke English as if he had only a fleeting acquaintance with the language. See Richard Thompson's classic construction "Make the Pie Higher":
https://illustrationchronicles.com/How-Richard-Thompson-Made-the-Pie-Higher
Encyclopedias? My wife bought her childhood set a few years ago. They sit on a special shelf - unused. I also have hundreds of 50's and 60's paper back and hard science fiction books and magazines in the basement. But my point is my great save. I worked at the Texas Tech Library in the 60's and it had two sets of the Saturday Evening Post bound. And they weeded one set. I personally put them in the dumpster. And by chance my brothers with my father's pickup were visiting and I had the great idea to retrieve them. It was to be the core of my personal library to be. Not a full run, but something like 30 bound volumes. Even the Norman Rockwell cover were valuable. I then went from School to Army and back to school and while away working my brothers dumped them. Gone. "We read all we wanted to read." I said: " You could have let me know. I could have put them in storage." And they were bewildered. Magazines? I complained until they said "This is a sore subject. Shut up." And I did. But GOSH! Likely they were right. I have computer versions of Playboy over many years and I never look at them. I look at my New Yorker text more often, especially a great article on canned peas. Some of us librarians really are slightly mad. But not hoarders. Not quite.
Re the 82-year-old and electronic typewriters. I am a bit younger (66) and here is why I bought an electronic daisy-wheel typewriter in 1983: It was $500 and a home computer plus (poor-quality) dot matrix printer was close to $3000. Later (about 1986) when dedicated word processors with daisy-wheel printers came out and were about $400 and home computers with (slightly better) dot matrix printers were $2500, I opted for the word processor. Then in 1991 I again opted for a word processor with pretty good dot matrix printer for about $350, while the computer with pretty good dot matrix printer was about $2000. It wasn’t until about 1997 that we bought our first home computer with decent printer. Cost about $1000.
I went into business using an IBM Correcting Selectric in 1975. At some point it outlived its useful life, and I got an IBM Wheelwriter (which also had correcting tape), which had enough memory to hold an entire chapter of a dissertation. You could type into memory line by (corrected) line, then play it back flawlessly. I was still using this after we got a Compaq "luggable" in the 1980s (two floppy drives and no hard drive) because the dot matrix printer we had didn't produce "letter-quality" output. In 1992, I got a computer ($3,000, which was the going rate for computers in those days) and a LaserJet (another $1,000+) and abandoned the Wheelwriter. I still have it, but the other day I made three stabs at filling out a FedEx airbill but found I really don't know how to use it any more. It was great while it lasted, however.
I'm guessing you know that the 1872 US Grant campaign song is a parody of a parody, but in case you don't, it the melody is that of an 1858 Methodist hymn attributed to William Steffey, and was borrowed in 1860 for what became the familiar civil war tune "John Brown's Body" (aka John Brown's Song) sung by marching Union soldiers ("Glory glory hallelujah, his soul goes marching on...").
At some point during the war or soon after it was borrowed for the song "Hang Jeff Davis," which is of unknown origin but was probably written by a University of Pennsylvania student because it has been sung there ever since. That song begins "Hang Jeff Davis from a sour apple tree..." and seems the likely inspiration for"Hang the lib'ral Greeley on a sour apple tree"
The choice for me as a vegetarian is “all chicken is gross.”
PS - I forgot to just swoon over the encyclopedia. I know many of us have already made note of how hard it was to throw them away, they were/are such a treasure to pick up randomly and read. Love love love.
is it possible to edit our comments, or once they are posted they are cyberspace forever? Can we delete them? FB lets us edit and delete our comments. thanks.