As much as I detest him, I have to admit, the lazy, unread, narcissistic, doltish dotard would likely not know it is an ethnic slur, but he would not care that it is either.
I'm fairly certain our boy could never sit through a Shakespeare play, or read one, but I think it's even money that he knew "shylock" meant "Jew." Whether he has the wit to understand that a Jew might take offense at being called a Shylock--or whether he gives a shit--is another question.
That may be very true about Shakespeare. But I’ve heard him make disparaging remarks about Jews years ago. Even tho’ he has Jewish ancestry he does not like them for reasons probably related to his fascism.
He is stone cold ignorant. But chances are he was called that himself over what can politely be described as a career, given his history of financial dealings. So much for Demento's crusade against antisemitism. As phony as his hair and makeup and not the first time he has pushed antisemitic, racist or ethnic tropes. His usual trope-a-dope. But then what would you expect from a punk.
Dale, I always like your posts, and I love "trope-a-dope," but you too misspelled antisemitic. Now when I was a graduate student I was writing my dissertation on "A Semeiotic Approach to the Study of Politics, but the department recorded my title as "A Semitic Approach ... ." (By the way I'm not actually Jewish, even though my last name is Beth; it's a version of "Beeth--" as in "Beethoven.")
My husband called Ma that just a few months ago! It took me almost 5 minutes to quit laughing enough to correct him. At least he pronounced it as Yo Ma Ma, not Yo Mama.
I don't think he has a concept of anything being a slur, because to understand a word is a slur, he would need to comprehend that someone could be offended by it, which means he must first have an inkling that other people actually have thoughts and feelings of their own and they are not things that only exist to be props in the story of Don.
He knows. The only thing less believable than the claim he - a man credibly accused of using far more infamous slurs in his past - picked up that term from innocent usage, would be a claim that he was making a Shakespearean literary reference.
His filter, which was never strong, is now decaying badly.
Trump is obviously antisemitic. He is also stupid and incurious—he's crafty and canny, but still hopelessly stupid. It is highly unlikely he knows any characters from Shakespeare, so it's possible all he knows about "shylock" is that it is a term for a mob moneylender whose terms are so onerous they virtually guaranteed default, keeping the poor desperate slugs who borrow from them paying indefinitely, or else lose their thumbs and kneecaps.
Trump is a mobster after a fashion, but unless one is a bona fide mook mafioso, using their lingo to sound tough is just sad. Using antisemitic lingo without even realizing it is a sign of lazy, careless obliviousness, which is right on brand for the ochre ogre.
Mine was not a misuse of a slur, but it rhymes. It went like this: I was working in a public facing capacity at a tourist area.
One of the local restaurants was locally known as “Black’s” as that was the name of the (white) family that owned it. The third generation owner had a bad reputation with his employees, so we had a little quiet local boycott going.
One day some perfectly innocent tourists asked me where to have lunch, and I made some suggestions. They asked about (real name here) and I said
“Oh we never eat there. It’s run by Black’s.”
The tourists looked disgusted and walked away. I was baffled. It took about fifteen minutes for me to replay the conversation and ohhhhhhhhh.
I looked for the tourists to apologize. I went to my boss and confessed. I waited for the well-deserved complaint letter. I can only hope that the tourists went to eat at Black’s, told their waiter the story and learned the (not quite as awful) truth.
Anyone who excuses racist language on the grounds of "ignorance," is either an ostrich, or a sunflower in a field of sunflowers. You can not know Black people and be ignorant of Black slurs; you can not know Jewish people and be ignorant of Jewish slurs; you can not know Italian, Polish, Irish, or ANYONE FROM ANY OTHER BACKGROUND, and not know what WASPs call them in this country. And yes; I used plenty of semi-colons here just to be sure my point was well-understood. I almost used one to end this sentence. Because I could go on.
And yet pure innocent ignorance does exist. Who among us has not been guilty of it, ever? It's not possible to eliminate it just by declaring that a given person from one subgroup CAN NOT fail to know every slur applying to a different subgroup they're not familiar with. Such person can do her best to keep up with shifting slang and language; she can try to read widely and know diverse people, yet still make mistakes without deserving to herself be slurred as an ostrich or sunflower. Offering the benefit of the doubt and education goes a long way -- for the first error accompanied by an apology, at least.
I doubt if innocent cluelessness accounts for Trump's Shylock crack, but anyone as incurious as he is might very well not have known and so merit another chance. ONE. If he blows that, nail him to the wall!
Really? Most would avoid using slurs to start with and, if they stooped to do so, would make certain they knew what they meant or implied --- otherwise why bother? So, I assume you're playing devil's advocate. You can't otherwise be naive enough to think that Demento didn't know it was a slur of some kind for starters and, moreover, coming from the financial center of the country and the NYC real estate community in particular, hadn't heard it applied as an antisemitic libel many times --- no doubt by his own father. Actually the point of him using the slur supposedly unknowingly is not the point. Even dimwit that he is, it has probably penetrated the mush between his ears that he probably ("probably" being the operative word here) shouldn't use shylock again except in a future lecture on the complexity with which Shakespeare imbued the character. A quick apology would have sufficed, but of course, in his inimitable fashion, he compounded the matter and raised the issue of yet one more compulsive lie by claiming ignorance. With Demento you may well doubt the benefit, but never give him the benefit of the doubt. Ever. You do so at your peril. And certainly not when it comes to slurs and negative tropes. How he comes by them, or what he understands about them is irrelevant. He uses them as intended, to slander and belittle others. You don't give a rattlesnake "another chance."
I detest when other people presume to know (or worse, they declare to ME) my (low) motives or beliefs. Perhaps you detest when that is done to you, too. So while I"m not saintly enough to refrain from vivid speculation about others' interior lives based on what they say and do, I do strive to bear in mind that my speculations are not certainties.
If you choose to view my committed Golden-Ruleism as gullible naivete, so be it.
And please note I did not suggest Trump meant no malevolence, because he almost certainly did. I only leave room for doubt that he is literate enough to deploy that specific insult precisely. Accidental verbal barbs do not inflict quite the same damage as intentional ones, as anyone who has been judged "old" or "fat" by a kindergartener can attest.
Detest away. I presume nothing other than you appear to ignore the fact that words have consequences whatever the intent or ignorance of them. Surely even your "Golden Rule" allows for that. However, there is never, I repeat never, any question of the intent of the slurs of Demento. That he may have inadvertently misused shylock this time, does not in any way shape or form mean he doesn't know its common usage (or effect) --- if not its origin --- whether he was directly and purposefully libeling a Jewish financial executive or not. I repeat, you never give a rattlesnake a second chance. Generalities don't apply to Donald Trump.
He has to have known it was a slur, given the business he grew up in and the father he grew up with (as another commenter mentioned). But I doubt he knew where it came from.
My entire life has been a series of unfortunate remarks. When I was a teen, my mother had to explain to me why it was not a compliment to say to someone, "I've always loved that dress."
I grew up in Syracuse New York where many residents had Polish ancestors. When my mother substitute taught at a junior high school one year in Solvay she had a class where all but one student’s name ended in a vowel - Italians and Polish. However I remember hearing Polock jokes back then and it was “Polock” not “Polack”. On the other hand one of the radio stations had Polish hour on Sundays.
My 100% Polish husband says that the Polish word for a male person who is Polish is Polak. The bastardization of the word occurred in this country, but isn't a slur at all when used amongst Poles.
I grew up in Miami hearing Irish jokes and Polish jokes, with the ethnicity interchangeable.
I was about to say that in South Jersey where I grew up it was always pronounced with the O, and whenever I saw it written it was written that way, too.
On more than occasion I have called someone out for saying “ I Jewed [him] down.” In every instance the person claimed not to know that it was offensive.
Yeah, agree it's hard to accept that, assuming they knew who or what a "Jew" was and obviously the context in which the slur was used to begin with. Don't have to be a member of Mensa to put two and two together.
I thought he wouldn’t know because it’s a Shakespeare reference, and that’s so far outside his knowledge base that he wouldn’t know it.
As much as I detest him, I have to admit, the lazy, unread, narcissistic, doltish dotard would likely not know it is an ethnic slur, but he would not care that it is either.
Exactly. He’s so stupid that it wouldn’t surprise me that he didn’t know; but he almost certainly wouldn’t care.
You lost me at "his knowledge base". 😄
It's been around SO LONG and his vocab is almost entirely centered on insults and demeaning people, so sorry, no. No pass on this.
Good point. I'm going to have to start thinking before answering.
Yes, but according to The Sopranos it's also mobster-speak for moneylender, so all bets are off.
True - although I'm pretty sure it isn't meant as a compliment there either!
Learned something new. Thank you.
I'm fairly certain our boy could never sit through a Shakespeare play, or read one, but I think it's even money that he knew "shylock" meant "Jew." Whether he has the wit to understand that a Jew might take offense at being called a Shylock--or whether he gives a shit--is another question.
That may be very true about Shakespeare. But I’ve heard him make disparaging remarks about Jews years ago. Even tho’ he has Jewish ancestry he does not like them for reasons probably related to his fascism.
This is why I voted 50-50. It's possible he's been told what it means sometime in his life.
I used to use word association to remember names. I'm bad at names.
I occasionally worked remotely with a man named Glade. First name.
I met him in person in a large meeting attended, of course, by people whom I was sent to impress.
I said, "Nice to meet you finally, Pledge".
He thought it was funny. We became friends.
please also send to the Q & 0 button
I skipped the instructions. The stupid illegal fireworks keep interrupting.
Delete it so everyone can be surprised in the actual next GPool, as that is truly brilliant. LOL
He is stone cold ignorant. But chances are he was called that himself over what can politely be described as a career, given his history of financial dealings. So much for Demento's crusade against antisemitism. As phony as his hair and makeup and not the first time he has pushed antisemitic, racist or ethnic tropes. His usual trope-a-dope. But then what would you expect from a punk.
He is ignorant, but very clever in a feral sense. Sociopaths frequently are.
Dale, I always like your posts, and I love "trope-a-dope," but you too misspelled antisemitic. Now when I was a graduate student I was writing my dissertation on "A Semeiotic Approach to the Study of Politics, but the department recorded my title as "A Semitic Approach ... ." (By the way I'm not actually Jewish, even though my last name is Beth; it's a version of "Beeth--" as in "Beethoven.")
Thanks. The typo was corrected. Apparently I crossed the red line.
Many years ago, a DC City Council member referred to visiting world-renowned cellist Yo Yo Ma, as Yo Mama.
My husband called Ma that just a few months ago! It took me almost 5 minutes to quit laughing enough to correct him. At least he pronounced it as Yo Ma Ma, not Yo Mama.
I don't think he has a concept of anything being a slur, because to understand a word is a slur, he would need to comprehend that someone could be offended by it, which means he must first have an inkling that other people actually have thoughts and feelings of their own and they are not things that only exist to be props in the story of Don.
His entire world is based on debasing and grinding people up. You think he doesn't have all the words?? :)
He doesn't have all the words, just a subset. "I'm very highly educated. I know words, I know the best words."
Yes, I bet he doesn’t know the origin of the word. But knows it is not complementary. Like kids don’t know what f**k means but know it is a bad word
He knows. The only thing less believable than the claim he - a man credibly accused of using far more infamous slurs in his past - picked up that term from innocent usage, would be a claim that he was making a Shakespearean literary reference.
His filter, which was never strong, is now decaying badly.
I am certain he picked it up from his father.
Trump is obviously antisemitic. He is also stupid and incurious—he's crafty and canny, but still hopelessly stupid. It is highly unlikely he knows any characters from Shakespeare, so it's possible all he knows about "shylock" is that it is a term for a mob moneylender whose terms are so onerous they virtually guaranteed default, keeping the poor desperate slugs who borrow from them paying indefinitely, or else lose their thumbs and kneecaps.
Trump is a mobster after a fashion, but unless one is a bona fide mook mafioso, using their lingo to sound tough is just sad. Using antisemitic lingo without even realizing it is a sign of lazy, careless obliviousness, which is right on brand for the ochre ogre.
Mine was not a misuse of a slur, but it rhymes. It went like this: I was working in a public facing capacity at a tourist area.
One of the local restaurants was locally known as “Black’s” as that was the name of the (white) family that owned it. The third generation owner had a bad reputation with his employees, so we had a little quiet local boycott going.
One day some perfectly innocent tourists asked me where to have lunch, and I made some suggestions. They asked about (real name here) and I said
“Oh we never eat there. It’s run by Black’s.”
The tourists looked disgusted and walked away. I was baffled. It took about fifteen minutes for me to replay the conversation and ohhhhhhhhh.
I looked for the tourists to apologize. I went to my boss and confessed. I waited for the well-deserved complaint letter. I can only hope that the tourists went to eat at Black’s, told their waiter the story and learned the (not quite as awful) truth.
There. I have confessed again.
Anyone who excuses racist language on the grounds of "ignorance," is either an ostrich, or a sunflower in a field of sunflowers. You can not know Black people and be ignorant of Black slurs; you can not know Jewish people and be ignorant of Jewish slurs; you can not know Italian, Polish, Irish, or ANYONE FROM ANY OTHER BACKGROUND, and not know what WASPs call them in this country. And yes; I used plenty of semi-colons here just to be sure my point was well-understood. I almost used one to end this sentence. Because I could go on.
And yet pure innocent ignorance does exist. Who among us has not been guilty of it, ever? It's not possible to eliminate it just by declaring that a given person from one subgroup CAN NOT fail to know every slur applying to a different subgroup they're not familiar with. Such person can do her best to keep up with shifting slang and language; she can try to read widely and know diverse people, yet still make mistakes without deserving to herself be slurred as an ostrich or sunflower. Offering the benefit of the doubt and education goes a long way -- for the first error accompanied by an apology, at least.
I doubt if innocent cluelessness accounts for Trump's Shylock crack, but anyone as incurious as he is might very well not have known and so merit another chance. ONE. If he blows that, nail him to the wall!
Really? Most would avoid using slurs to start with and, if they stooped to do so, would make certain they knew what they meant or implied --- otherwise why bother? So, I assume you're playing devil's advocate. You can't otherwise be naive enough to think that Demento didn't know it was a slur of some kind for starters and, moreover, coming from the financial center of the country and the NYC real estate community in particular, hadn't heard it applied as an antisemitic libel many times --- no doubt by his own father. Actually the point of him using the slur supposedly unknowingly is not the point. Even dimwit that he is, it has probably penetrated the mush between his ears that he probably ("probably" being the operative word here) shouldn't use shylock again except in a future lecture on the complexity with which Shakespeare imbued the character. A quick apology would have sufficed, but of course, in his inimitable fashion, he compounded the matter and raised the issue of yet one more compulsive lie by claiming ignorance. With Demento you may well doubt the benefit, but never give him the benefit of the doubt. Ever. You do so at your peril. And certainly not when it comes to slurs and negative tropes. How he comes by them, or what he understands about them is irrelevant. He uses them as intended, to slander and belittle others. You don't give a rattlesnake "another chance."
I detest when other people presume to know (or worse, they declare to ME) my (low) motives or beliefs. Perhaps you detest when that is done to you, too. So while I"m not saintly enough to refrain from vivid speculation about others' interior lives based on what they say and do, I do strive to bear in mind that my speculations are not certainties.
If you choose to view my committed Golden-Ruleism as gullible naivete, so be it.
And please note I did not suggest Trump meant no malevolence, because he almost certainly did. I only leave room for doubt that he is literate enough to deploy that specific insult precisely. Accidental verbal barbs do not inflict quite the same damage as intentional ones, as anyone who has been judged "old" or "fat" by a kindergartener can attest.
Detest away. I presume nothing other than you appear to ignore the fact that words have consequences whatever the intent or ignorance of them. Surely even your "Golden Rule" allows for that. However, there is never, I repeat never, any question of the intent of the slurs of Demento. That he may have inadvertently misused shylock this time, does not in any way shape or form mean he doesn't know its common usage (or effect) --- if not its origin --- whether he was directly and purposefully libeling a Jewish financial executive or not. I repeat, you never give a rattlesnake a second chance. Generalities don't apply to Donald Trump.
He has to have known it was a slur, given the business he grew up in and the father he grew up with (as another commenter mentioned). But I doubt he knew where it came from.
My entire life has been a series of unfortunate remarks. When I was a teen, my mother had to explain to me why it was not a compliment to say to someone, "I've always loved that dress."
I grew up in Syracuse New York where many residents had Polish ancestors. When my mother substitute taught at a junior high school one year in Solvay she had a class where all but one student’s name ended in a vowel - Italians and Polish. However I remember hearing Polock jokes back then and it was “Polock” not “Polack”. On the other hand one of the radio stations had Polish hour on Sundays.
My 100% Polish husband says that the Polish word for a male person who is Polish is Polak. The bastardization of the word occurred in this country, but isn't a slur at all when used amongst Poles.
I grew up in Miami hearing Irish jokes and Polish jokes, with the ethnicity interchangeable.
There are parts of Texas between Austin and Houston where all the jokes are Aggie (Texas A&M) jokes. They work, too.
I was about to say that in South Jersey where I grew up it was always pronounced with the O, and whenever I saw it written it was written that way, too.
I remember hearing that when I lived in Chicago with their huge Polish population.
He’s such a dolt that I believe he is dense enough to believe it was not a slur.
On more than occasion I have called someone out for saying “ I Jewed [him] down.” In every instance the person claimed not to know that it was offensive.
Yeah, agree it's hard to accept that, assuming they knew who or what a "Jew" was and obviously the context in which the slur was used to begin with. Don't have to be a member of Mensa to put two and two together.
If it’s a slur, he knows it. He may mot know its origin, but he knows it’s an insult and he knows who he is insulting.
I would just love a newspaper to write a story about this with the headline “Trump too stupid to be racist?”