Yes. And for the same reason I want to know why my dog has started pooping in the living room instead of using the doggie door she has been using for the past four years.
Perfect analogy. When your dog poops on the carpet, do you vilify her? Do you accuse her of being less than human? (Hmm; okay, maybe she deserves that one.) You love her and you genuinely want ti understand and resolve her problems, whatever they are. People vote for Trump for reasons. We have to understand those reasons and give them a better alternative.
Even though the reasons (stupid/selfish/hateful) are unjustifiable, they may be worth caring about, at least enough to try to craft a way to prevent a recurrence. I’m assuming we’ll be allowed another election, of course.
There is no justifiable reason for Trump being who he is. But some of those who voted for him (plenty enough to have turned the election) have very justifiable motives for doing so. Personally, I believe that voting for him was the wrong response to those motives, but I don’t deny that they have legitimate grievances. Trump will continue to exist, as a person or as a phenomenon, as long as those problems go unaddressed.
Please don't use pictures of him in your posts. I'm trying hard to not have to see his face/hear his voice, and this photo especially doesn't help. Thank you.
He won the popular vote. Pretending like that doesn't matter won't solve anything. It's true that America is rotten, but the Democrats have made so many mistakes, starting with Biden not stepping down and allowing a real nomination process to happen. Kamala was not only Biden's legacy candidate, she is perceived to be part of the west coast elite, along with pretty boy Gavin. If others had a fair chance to publicize a real democratic agenda (counter to 2025) and campaign, we might not be here today.
YES they voted for an authoritarian, but the majority of them couldn't define "authoritarian" if you put a gun to they're head.
YES they voted for somebody who will abuse the office of the president, but the majority of them couldn't tell you what the president even does.
YES they voted against their self-interest, but the majority of them think the U.S. government has never acted in their interest.
Our education system and our corporate media have failed us. OK. Boo hoo. That's not going to change in two years.
So we'd better do a better job of understanding how they think and what they respond to, and importantly, what TURNS THEM AWAY from otherwise good candidates. Without that knowledge, were in a death spiral.
I think the reasons are pretty obvious. Half of the voters didn't care about saving the republic and continuing the United States that we all grew up with. For the rich, it was more money in their accounts; for the corporations (like Wash Post owner Bezos), their businesses were more important than their country. For the vast sea of MAGAts, it was revenge for the perpetrators of their imagined misery - not understanding that they had just re-elected those very perpetrators who have governed (in one way or another) since Reagan, but now are on the brink of gaining immune from prosecution and uncontrollable power to do whatever they want.
I've spent the last three days saying that as far as reasons, what's not racism is sexism, what's not sexism is racism, and it's stupidity across the board.
But today for me the cult of personality thing has crept in and made it a four-team race. After all Slotkin won and so did Rosen and Baldwin kept her seat and Robinson lost and abortion rights won in a couple places.
Charisma is a positive attribute so I hate to use it to describe Trump but even those who hate him would have to admit he's got . . . . something. And if it's "charisma" or its Trumpian equivalent you need no further explanation. It's not subject to logic the way, let's say, Cuban refugees of a depraved strongman voting for a depraved strongman would be.
I said “no” because, what does it matter? If they cannot see that they have voted against their own self-interest (except Bezos, Musk & Co.), no analysis makes any difference. I looked at the hand-wringing headlines in this mornings Opinon section of The NY Times, and chose to read none of them.
For the same reason people study abnormal psychology. I figure these people are likely voting against their interests, but themselves think it is rational. It is entirely possible that if we don't understand them, we will someday be wrapped in plastic in their chest freezers.
We are in a time when every election changes parties. Such changes are much like a school of fish all turning at the same time. They just do it. So do voters. If they give a reason, it is likely made up.
No, because it will be a different reason next time...and none if it well researched, or even researched at all, by the voter. Stuck in their feels and fears and own the libs attitudes.
I want to know why anyone voted for him because I cannot think of any reason for me to ever have voted for him. To my mind, he should have gotten zero votes, ever. The Republicans could have nominated someone else.
He got an inordinate amount of mileage out of playing simple playground games. Someone would lay out all the evidence that proved he is a fascist, a dictator, a sociopath, a [you name it] and he would just essentially say "I know you are but what am I?" You'd think people would be smarter that to fall for that, but evidently a lot weren't.
"No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly." --- H.L. Mencken, The Baltimore Sun, September 18, 1926
"There's a sucker born every minute." --- Attributed to P.T. Barnum
Yes. And for the same reason I want to know why my dog has started pooping in the living room instead of using the doggie door she has been using for the past four years.
I love this response.
Right? Can I change my poll response?
Perfect analogy. When your dog poops on the carpet, do you vilify her? Do you accuse her of being less than human? (Hmm; okay, maybe she deserves that one.) You love her and you genuinely want ti understand and resolve her problems, whatever they are. People vote for Trump for reasons. We have to understand those reasons and give them a better alternative.
There is no justifiable reason to vote for that man.
Even though the reasons (stupid/selfish/hateful) are unjustifiable, they may be worth caring about, at least enough to try to craft a way to prevent a recurrence. I’m assuming we’ll be allowed another election, of course.
Ya mean like Russia and North Korea get?
Um, no.
There is no justifiable reason for Trump being who he is. But some of those who voted for him (plenty enough to have turned the election) have very justifiable motives for doing so. Personally, I believe that voting for him was the wrong response to those motives, but I don’t deny that they have legitimate grievances. Trump will continue to exist, as a person or as a phenomenon, as long as those problems go unaddressed.
yes exactly. Dems need to ask trump voters why specifically they voted for him and why specifically they didn't vote for her.
I already know why. Rampant, and disgustingly common, xenophobia, racism, and stupidity.
I resent that, Don, my dog is not stupid!
I realize that, but then again, your dog likely didn’t vote for fascism.
How many times may I LIKE?
Please don't use pictures of him in your posts. I'm trying hard to not have to see his face/hear his voice, and this photo especially doesn't help. Thank you.
We need to drown in it, so we can vomit.
I’m perfectly capable of barfing myself, without that hideous mug in front of me. Especially after a meal.
Me, too.
Try one of the un-bronzed photos published recently. Looks much more like the tired, pathetic old man he is.
Drown in our own vomit?
Same!
Yes. How are we going to get out of this pit if we don't know how we got into it?
He won the popular vote. Pretending like that doesn't matter won't solve anything. It's true that America is rotten, but the Democrats have made so many mistakes, starting with Biden not stepping down and allowing a real nomination process to happen. Kamala was not only Biden's legacy candidate, she is perceived to be part of the west coast elite, along with pretty boy Gavin. If others had a fair chance to publicize a real democratic agenda (counter to 2025) and campaign, we might not be here today.
I chose yes. How could so many people abandon basic decency? How can so many people fall for his interminable BS?
Reading these comments depresses me.
We must do more to understand these voters.
YES they voted for an authoritarian, but the majority of them couldn't define "authoritarian" if you put a gun to they're head.
YES they voted for somebody who will abuse the office of the president, but the majority of them couldn't tell you what the president even does.
YES they voted against their self-interest, but the majority of them think the U.S. government has never acted in their interest.
Our education system and our corporate media have failed us. OK. Boo hoo. That's not going to change in two years.
So we'd better do a better job of understanding how they think and what they respond to, and importantly, what TURNS THEM AWAY from otherwise good candidates. Without that knowledge, were in a death spiral.
I think the reasons are pretty obvious. Half of the voters didn't care about saving the republic and continuing the United States that we all grew up with. For the rich, it was more money in their accounts; for the corporations (like Wash Post owner Bezos), their businesses were more important than their country. For the vast sea of MAGAts, it was revenge for the perpetrators of their imagined misery - not understanding that they had just re-elected those very perpetrators who have governed (in one way or another) since Reagan, but now are on the brink of gaining immune from prosecution and uncontrollable power to do whatever they want.
Yep. Cash-in, burn it down, or just cow-fuck crazy. All of them internally rational behavior without any mystery or head-scratching needed.
I've spent the last three days saying that as far as reasons, what's not racism is sexism, what's not sexism is racism, and it's stupidity across the board.
But today for me the cult of personality thing has crept in and made it a four-team race. After all Slotkin won and so did Rosen and Baldwin kept her seat and Robinson lost and abortion rights won in a couple places.
Charisma is a positive attribute so I hate to use it to describe Trump but even those who hate him would have to admit he's got . . . . something. And if it's "charisma" or its Trumpian equivalent you need no further explanation. It's not subject to logic the way, let's say, Cuban refugees of a depraved strongman voting for a depraved strongman would be.
I said “no” because, what does it matter? If they cannot see that they have voted against their own self-interest (except Bezos, Musk & Co.), no analysis makes any difference. I looked at the hand-wringing headlines in this mornings Opinon section of The NY Times, and chose to read none of them.
For the same reason people study abnormal psychology. I figure these people are likely voting against their interests, but themselves think it is rational. It is entirely possible that if we don't understand them, we will someday be wrapped in plastic in their chest freezers.
We are in a time when every election changes parties. Such changes are much like a school of fish all turning at the same time. They just do it. So do voters. If they give a reason, it is likely made up.
Yes. We have to know why this catastrophe occurred. The Latino vote, in particular, baffles me.
Latino men generally seem to prefer women to be submissive.
No, because it will be a different reason next time...and none if it well researched, or even researched at all, by the voter. Stuck in their feels and fears and own the libs attitudes.
I want to know why anyone voted for him because I cannot think of any reason for me to ever have voted for him. To my mind, he should have gotten zero votes, ever. The Republicans could have nominated someone else.
He got an inordinate amount of mileage out of playing simple playground games. Someone would lay out all the evidence that proved he is a fascist, a dictator, a sociopath, a [you name it] and he would just essentially say "I know you are but what am I?" You'd think people would be smarter that to fall for that, but evidently a lot weren't.
"No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly." --- H.L. Mencken, The Baltimore Sun, September 18, 1926
"There's a sucker born every minute." --- Attributed to P.T. Barnum
To which I'd like to add the assessment from Walt Kelly's "Pogo" cartoon: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
I think we'll be quoting Mencken frequently in the next several years.